Thursday 16 May 2024

Saint John responsible for harm caused by policeman's child sex abuse: Supreme Court

 
 
An older man wearing a maroon blazer and glasses, his eyes downcast.


---------- Original message ---------
From: Moore, Rob - M.P. <Rob.Moore@parl.gc.ca>
Date: Thu, May 16, 2024 at 5:37 PM
Subject: Automatic reply: RE Hayes v. City of Saint John Hey Higgy who says folks can't sue the City Hall now?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>


*This is an automated response*

 

Thank you for contacting the Honourable Rob Moore, P.C., M.P. office. We appreciate the time you took to get in touch with our office.

 

If you did not already, please ensure to include your full contact details on your email and the appropriate staff will be able to action your request. We strive to ensure all constituent correspondence is responded to in a timely manner.

 

If your question or concern is time sensitive, please call our office: 506-832-4200.

 

Again, we thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns.

 

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Office of the Honourable Rob Moore, P.C., M.P.

Member of Parliament for Fundy Royal

rob.moore@parl.gc.ca

 

 

 
---------- Original message ---------
From: Ministerial Correspondence Unit - Justice Canada <mcu@justice.gc.ca>
Date: Thu, May 16, 2024 at 5:34 PM
Subject: Automatic Reply
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

Thank you for writing to the Honourable Arif Virani, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.

Due to the volume of correspondence addressed to the Minister, please note that there may be a delay in processing your email. Rest assured that your message will be carefully reviewed.

We do not respond to correspondence that contains offensive language.

-------------------

Merci d'avoir écrit à l'honorable Arif Virani, ministre de la Justice et procureur général du Canada.

En raison du volume de correspondance adressée au ministre, veuillez prendre note qu'il pourrait y avoir un retard dans le traitement de votre courriel. Nous tenons à vous assurer que votre message sera lu avec soin.

Nous ne répondons pas à la correspondance contenant un langage offensant.

 

 
---------- Original message ---------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, May 16, 2024 at 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: RE Hayes v. City of Saint John Hey Higgy who says folks can't sue the City Hall now?
To: <john@mckigganhebert.com>, <atanel@kmlaw.ca>, <cpoltak@kmlaw.ca>, <mdb@brentonkean.com>, kris.austin <kris.austin@gnb.ca>, Mike.Comeau <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>, Bobbi-Jean.MacKinnon <Bobbi-Jean.MacKinnon@cbc.ca>, Newsroom <Newsroom@globeandmail.com>, NightTimePodcast <NightTimePodcast@gmail.com>, Nathalie.G.Drouin <Nathalie.G.Drouin@pco-bcp.gc.ca>, Katie.Telford <Katie.Telford@pmo-cpm.gc.ca>, Mitton, Megan (LEG) <megan.mitton@gnb.ca>
Cc: motomaniac333 <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, blaine.higgs <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>, pm <pm@pm.gc.ca>, rob.moore <rob.moore@parl.gc.ca>, <ahouse@fasken.com>, mcu <mcu@justice.gc.ca>
 
 
 

Saint John responsible for harm caused by policeman's child sex abuse: Supreme Court

Top court rejects city's request to appeal vicarious liability decision

The Supreme Court of Canada has refused to hear an appeal by the City of Saint John in the case of a police officer who sexually abused children decades ago. 

That means last year's decision by the Court of Appeal of New Brunswick will stand — that the City of Saint John is vicariously liable for the sexual abuse committed by Kenneth Estabrooks while he was a police officer. 

The only thing left to be sorted out is how much victims will get paid, said Halifax lawyer John McKiggan, who acted for representative plaintiff Bobby Hayes and other class members in the lawsuit against the city. 

He estimates that the suit could cost the city about $20 million. 

The profile of a man with grey hair and a beard, wearing a white shirt and black blazer. Halifax lawyer John McKiggan, seen here in a file photo, acted for representative plaintiff Bobby Hayes and other class members in the lawsuit against the city. (Graham Thompson/CBC)

McKiggan said individual damage awards for sexual abuse typically run from about $50,000 to $100,000 — to over $1 million for "the worst cases." 

"So here in Atlantic Canada, for example, these types of cases tend to be resolved in advance of trial somewhere in the range of $200,000 to $400,000. That's not an unusual range," said McKiggan after the Supreme Court's decision was released Thursday morning. 

WATCH | 'That's the end of it. The city is now responsible':
 

A Saint John police officer abused children for decades. And the city has to pay

Duration 1:10
The Supreme Court of Canada has refused to hear an appeal by the City of Saint John in the case of Kenneth Estabrooks, who sexually abused children while he was a police officer. The plaintiffs’ lawyer says the city is obligated to compensate everyone.

He said the city's own private investigator came up with a potential list of hundreds who said they were abused by Estabrooks. 

"So if you assume an average damage award of $200,000 and only 100 claimants, that's $20 million," said McKiggan.

"I suspect there are more than 100 survivors out there, so the city has some very significant financial peril in front of them now," he said. 

McKiggan isn't sure how much the city's insurance policies will cover. 

So although there "likely is some insurance to cover some of these claims, it's also likely that the insurance won't be sufficient to cover all of the claims."

City considering 'next steps'

The city was asked to provide someone for an interview but responded with a one-line email: "The City was just informed of the Supreme Court of Canada's decision and will be getting advice on next steps."

Mayor Donna Reardon did not respond to an interview request by publication time.

McKiggan said the Supreme Court's decision vindicates Bobby Hayes's "long battle" to hold the city accountable for Estabrooks's actions. 

Although pleased with the decision, Hayes said in an interview Thursday that "money will never undo what he's done." 

While he's still haunted by his own memories of abuse suffered at the hands of Estabrooks, Hayes said he's also haunted by the stories of other victims.

He can still vividly recall standing on the corner of St. James and Charlotte streets and watching Estabrooks drive by in a police car with an eight-year-old boy in the backseat. 

 Grey-haired man in dark hoodie sits on a wooden bench in front of a playground.After Thursday's Supreme Court of Canada decision, Bobby Hayes said 'money will never undo' what Estabrooks did. (Graham Thompson/CBC News)

Hayes said the boy's tear-soaked face was pressed up against the glass as he cried out for help "because he knew what would happen when he got down to Tin Can Beach." 

Standing on the street as a boy, Hayes also knew what was going to happen to Estabrooks's young passenger.

"Stuff like that sticks with me," said Hayes. 

That particular victim is still around. Hayes says the man "now has a real bad drug addiction." 

"I see the victims on a daily basis. I see the the damage that it's done through alcohol, drug abuse, suicides." 

Lawsuit began in 2013

Hayes has been fighting on behalf of victims for more than a decade. 

Estabrooks was charged criminally in 1999 with four counts of indecent assault and eventually convicted and sentenced to six years in prison, where he died in 2005. 

Hayes, as the representative plaintiff, began his lawsuit against the city in 2013. 

In March 2023, a Court of King's Bench decision said the city was not vicariously liable for harm caused, but that decision was overturned last September on appeal. 

In its decision last year, the Court of Appeal of New Brunswick said Estabrooks "used the power and status of his job to sexually abuse vulnerable and impressionable children." 

"When Estabrooks initiated the abuse, which was often at the most repugnant end of the spectrum, he was wearing a City-issued police uniform and badge, and in control of a City patrol car, his City-issued handgun almost invariably visible and always within reach."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Mia Urquhart is a journalist with CBC New Brunswick, based in Saint John. She can be reached at mia.urquhart@cbc.ca.

 
 
3 Comments
 
 
David Amos 
Surprise Surprise Surprise  
 
 
MICHAEL O'DELL  
All the cover ups and tranfers are coming back to haunt the city 
 
David Amos
Reply to MICHAEL O'DELL
High Time 
 
 
On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:18 AM David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com> wrote:
 


---------- Original message ---------
From: Newsroom <newsroom@globeandmail.com>
Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:18 AM
Subject: Automatic reply: RE Hayes v. City of Saint John Hey Higgy who says folks can't sue the City Hall now?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

Thank you for contacting The Globe and Mail.

If your matter pertains to newspaper delivery or you require technical support, please contact our Customer Service department at 1-800-387-5400 or send an email to customerservice@globeandmail.com

If you are reporting a factual error please forward your email to publiceditor@globeandmail.com

Letters to the Editor can be sent to letters@globeandmail.com

This is the correct email address for requests for news coverage and press releases.


---------- Original message ---------
From: Mitton, Megan (LEG) <Megan.Mitton@gnb.ca>
Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:18 AM
Subject: Automatic reply: RE Hayes v. City of Saint John Hey Higgy who says folks can't sue the City Hall now?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>


Thank you for your email. I appreciate hearing from you and will respond to questions as soon as possible. For more immediate assistance, please call the Constituency office at: (506) 378-1565 or the Fredericton office: (506) 457-6842.
For media requests, please call (506) 429-2285.
---
Je vous remercie pour votre courriel. Je vous remercie de m'avoir contacté et je répondrai aux questions dès que possible. Pour une assistance immédiate, veuillez appeler le bureau de circonscription au (506) 378-1565 ou le bureau de Fredericton au (506) 457-6842.
Pour les demandes d'entrevue, veuillez appeler le (506) 429-2285.


Megan Mitton (elle / she, her)

Députée de Memramcook-Tantramar | Responsable en matière de la santé, le logement, le changement climatique, et les droits humains.
MLA for Memramcook-Tantramar | Advocate and Critic on files including Health, Housing, Climate Change, and Human Rights.


Le Nouveau-Brunswick est situé sur les territoires traditionnels, non cédés des Mi’kmaq, Wolastoqiyik & Peskotomuhkati. / New Brunswick is situated on the unceded traditional territories of the Mi’kmaq, Wolastoqiyik & Peskotomuhkati.

 
 


---------- Original message ---------
From: Ministerial Correspondence Unit - Justice Canada <mcu@justice.gc.ca>
Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:18 AM
Subject: Automatic Reply
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

Thank you for writing to the Honourable Arif Virani, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada.

Due to the volume of correspondence addressed to the Minister, please note that there may be a delay in processing your email. Rest assured that your message will be carefully reviewed.

We do not respond to correspondence that contains offensive language.

-------------------

Merci d'avoir écrit à l'honorable Arif Virani, ministre de la Justice et procureur général du Canada.

En raison du volume de correspondance adressée au ministre, veuillez prendre note qu'il pourrait y avoir un retard dans le traitement de votre courriel. Nous tenons à vous assurer que votre message sera lu avec soin.

Nous ne répondons pas à la correspondance contenant un langage offensant.

 

 
---------- Original message ---------
From: Moore, Rob - M.P. <Rob.Moore@parl.gc.ca>
Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:18 AM
Subject: Automatic reply: RE Hayes v. City of Saint John Hey Higgy who says folks can't sue the City Hall now?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

*This is an automated response*

 

Thank you for contacting the Honourable Rob Moore, P.C., M.P. office. We appreciate the time you took to get in touch with our office.

 

If you did not already, please ensure to include your full contact details on your email and the appropriate staff will be able to action your request. We strive to ensure all constituent correspondence is responded to in a timely manner.

 

If your question or concern is time sensitive, please call our office: 506-832-4200.

 

Again, we thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns.

 

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Office of the Honourable Rob Moore, P.C., M.P.

Member of Parliament for Fundy Royal

rob.moore@parl.gc.ca

 

 


---------- Original message ---------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 10:18 AM
Subject: RE Hayes v. City of Saint John Hey Higgy who says folks can't sue the City Hall now?
To: <john@mckigganhebert.com>, <atanel@kmlaw.ca>, <cpoltak@kmlaw.ca>, <mdb@brentonkean.com>, kris.austin <kris.austin@gnb.ca>, Mike.Comeau <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>, Bobbi-Jean.MacKinnon <Bobbi-Jean.MacKinnon@cbc.ca>, Newsroom <Newsroom@globeandmail.com>, NightTimePodcast <NightTimePodcast@gmail.com>, Nathalie.G.Drouin <Nathalie.G.Drouin@pco-bcp.gc.ca>, Katie.Telford <Katie.Telford@pmo-cpm.gc.ca>, Mitton, Megan (LEG) <megan.mitton@gnb.ca>
Cc: motomaniac333 <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, blaine.higgs <blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>, pm <pm@pm.gc.ca>, rob.moore <rob.moore@parl.gc.ca>, <ahouse@fasken.com>, mcu <mcu@justice.gc.ca>


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-liable-sexual-abuse-kenneth-estabrooks-police-officer-bobby-hayes-appeal-1.6966557

Saint John liable for sexual abuse by Kenneth Estabrooks while a
police officer, top court rules


'Happy day,' says Bobby Hayes, representative plaintiff in 10-year
class action, but it's not over yet

Bobbi-Jean MacKinnon · CBC News · Posted: Sep 14, 2023 4:11 PM ADT

An older man wearing a maroon blazer and glasses, his eyes downcast.
An investigation launched by the City of Saint John in 2012 revealed
Kenneth Estabrooks may have abused hundreds of children over a
three-decade period. (CBC)

New Brunswick's highest court has ruled the City of Saint John is
vicariously liable for the sexual abuse of children by Kenneth
Estabrooks while he worked as a police officer decades ago.

In a written decision Thursday, the Court of Appeal set aside a nearly
year-old Court of King's Bench decision, with the issue of costs to be
addressed later.

The lower court judge "committed reversible error in finding the
police officer was not an employee of the City when he perpetrated,
during working hours, the sexual abuse in question and that the
'strong connection' between job functions and wrongdoing required to
justify the imposition of the vicarious liability was not
established," Justice Ernest Drapeau wrote on behalf of the
three-justice panel.

It's "a hugely important decision" and a legal precedent, according to
Halifax-based lawyer John McKiggan, who acted for representative
plaintiff Bobby Hayes and other class members in the lawsuit against
the city.

The lawsuit stemmed from the harm Estabrooks inflicted between 1953
and 1975, as a police officer, and between 1975 and 1983, when he was
transferred to the city works department after he admitted to sexual
relationships with two teenage boys.

"It means that the survivors … will have a means of recourse,"
McKiggan said of the Appeal Court's decision. "They will have some
measure of accountability now for what happened to them."

Damages could be in the 'tens of millions'

Until now, case law across the country suggested that municipalities
could not be held responsible for wrongful acts by police officers
prior to the late-'70s, he said.

"And what the Court of Appeal has done here is … recognized that the
law has evolved."

He estimates there could be hundreds of victims and that the city
could face damages worth "tens of millions" of dollars, based on
similar cases dealing with the "lasting harms and catastrophic effects
of historical child abuse."
City to argue statute of limitations

The 10-year legal battle isn't over, however.

On Sept. 28, the Appeal Court will hear arguments from the city that
the survivors waited too long to come forward; that the statute of
limitations bars their claims.

In addition, a cross-appeal by the city against the 2022 finding that
it's vicariously liable for the alleged sexual assaults Estabrooks
committed after his transfer to the city works department, has been
adjourned. The court has asked the trial judge to determine whether
the Workers' Compensation Act bars any of the claims.

The profile of a man with grey hair and a beard, wearing a white shirt
and black blazer.
Plaintiffs' lawyer John McKiggan says that until now, historical case
law across the country suggested municipalities could not be held
responsible for wrongful acts committed by police officers prior to
the late-1970s. (Graham Thompson/CBC)

Still, McKiggan was excited to deliver the news to Hayes.

"It was one of the best calls I've ever made," said McKiggan, who
commended Hayes for his courage in coming forward about what happened
to him as a child and young man, and in "trying to hold the city
accountable for their role in this terrible tragedy."
'Finally … justice is in sight'

"It's a happy day for me, a happy day," Hayes, 64, told CBC. "Finally,
you know, justice is in sight."

He credited McKiggan with being "relentless" and described him as a "godsend."

"I see the victims every day, including myself, and see the
devastation, you know, the alcohol, the drugs, suicides, and the
hardships that people go through. And not only them, the horrific
things that happened to them, but it's passed on to their families,
the things that were done to them, that affected them."

A close-up profile of a man with short,grey hair.
Bobby Hayes says he feels relieved by the Court of Appeal's decision,
but he'll be 'glad when it's all over.' (Graham Thompson/CBC)

Hayes, one of five men who testified during the class-action last
summer, told the court he was first sexually assaulted by Estabrooks
in 1970 as a 10-year-old, and many other times over the next three or
four years.

Hayes also alleged he was sexually assaulted by Estabrooks again as a
young man, when they were both employed by the city works department,
and that supervisors simply advised him to "move faster" to avoid
being assaulted.

On Thursday, Hayes alleged one of his childhood friends was raped by
Estabrooks in his police car while the boy's brother was handcuffed to
the steering wheel.

    Plaintiffs in class action over child abuser asked to pay costs to
City of Saint John

He regularly gets stopped on the street by fellow alleged victims, who
want to share their "heartbreaking" stories, he said. One woman
recently read him a letter from her father, who had passed away and
wanted to thank Hayes for "standing up for the rest of us."

The man was allegedly repeatedly abused by Estabrooks in his police
car, starting when he was eight years old, and eventually became an
alcoholic, according to Hayes.

"It's something that's never going to go away, but at least the
victims have found justice through John."

City spokesperson Lisa Caissie declined to comment, saying the city
just received a copy of the court's decision. "We are looking into it
and are not in a position to comment at this time," she said in an
email.

Estabrooks retired in 1983. In 1999, the former sergeant was found
guilty of indecent assault against four children, in cases dating back
to the 1950s, and sentenced to six years in prison. He died in 2005.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices


Deja Vu Anyone?


http://davidamos.blogspot.com/2005/03/ides-of-march.html

Please Honorable Minister, show us that your department takes crime
seriously, and deliver justice to Mr. Prior and his siblings.

For the sake of all children and families in Canada,

Canadian Family Congress
Vancouver, British Columbia
Canada

http://www.andrewhouse.ca/default.asp?id=66&menuID=66
Born in Gander, Newfoundland, Andrew was raised in Atlantic Canada and
moved to Halifax in 1994 to attend Dalhousie University. After
graduating from Dalhousie Law School in 2001, Andrew articled with the
Ottawa law firm of Blake, Cassels & Graydon, LLP. Following articles,
Andrew joined the United Nations Mission to Kosovo as an advisor on
arms control and police & justice reform.

After returning to Halifax in 2003, Andrew practiced criminal law with
Nova Scotia Legal Aid. Andrew currently works for the firm of Arnold
Pizzo McKiggan, specializing in employment, personal injury, and
criminal law.
Andrew is a member of the Nova Scotia Barristers Society and Law
Society of Upper Canada. He serves as volunteer counsel to individuals
attempting to gain refugee status in Canada.
Andrew is a runner and enjoys nothing more than an afternoon sail out
of Halifax Harbour.

OTTAWA -- May 4, 2006 -- Rob Moore, M.P. (Fundy Royal) and
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice, today lent his
voice to the chorus of Canadians supporting the new Conservative
Government's efforts to tackle serious crime.

Minister of Justice Vic Toews today introduced legislation to toughen
sentencing for crimes involving firearms by enhancing the mandatory
minimum penalty provisions of the Criminal Code. The Minister also
introduced a companion bill to end the availability of conditional
sentences for serious crimes.

"Not only will criminals be generally deterred from gun crime but
those involved in repeated gun offences will be removed from
circulation," said Moore. "The revolving door has finally been shut."

Under the proposed legislation, the use of a firearm in committing a
serious offence will be subject to a significant sentence. If, for
example, an offence is gang-related, or if a restricted or prohibited
firearm such as a handgun is used, the minimum penalty will be:
5 years on a first offence
7 years if the accused has one prior conviction involving the use of a
firearm to commit an offence
10 years if the accused has more than one prior conviction for using a
firearm to commit an offence

In the case of Conditional Sentences, the proposed reforms would
prohibit the use of conditional sentences for offences prosecuted by
indictment and punishable by a maximum sentence of 10 years or more.
Those convicted of serious violent and sexual offences, as well as
other significant crimes, such as major drug offences, would be
ineligible to receive a conditional sentence.

Said Moore of the Government's reform of house arrest laws, "The
commision of a serious offence which might have landed you in jail in
the past will certainly put you there now." Online versions of the
proposed legislation are available at www.parl.gc.ca


- 30 -

Andrew House
Special Assistant
Office of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice
(613) 992-4621

or

Douglas A. MacDonald
Director of Operations
Office of Rob Moore MP
Fundy Royal, NB
506-333-8960


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 19:36:28 -0400
Subject: RE Saint John and the evil cop Kenny Baby Estabrooks Trust I
just called and left a message for Bobby Hayes' lawyer Adam Tanel
To: atanel@kmlaw.ca, cpoltak@kmlaw.ca, mdb@brentonkean.com,
"kris.austin" <kris.austin@gnb.ca>, "Mike.Comeau" <Mike.Comeau@gnb.ca>
Cc: motomaniac333 <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, mia.urquhart@cbc.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/estabrooks-class-action-lawsuit-1.6736452


Plaintiffs in class action over child abuser asked to pay costs to
City of Saint John
Social Sharing

    Facebook
    Twitter
    Email
    Reddit
    LinkedIn

Lawsuit alleges city liable for police officer who sexually abused children
Mia Urquhart · CBC News · Posted: Feb 03, 2023 4:58 PM AST | Last
Updated: 2 hours ago
Bobby Hayes is confident the New Brunswick Court of Appeal will
overturn last year's decision in the class-action lawsuit against the
City of Saint John. (Graham Thompson/CBC)

Bobby Hayes says "Good luck" to the City of Saint John if it expects
him to pick up the tab for a decade-long class-action lawsuit.

"Telling me that I'm going to cover their legal costs — they're
crazy," Hayes, the representative plaintiff in the lawsuit against the
city, said Friday after another court appearance in the case.

"Good luck with that one. And the city doesn't want to celebrate too
early because they're the ones that are going to be paying when this
appeal is gone through and the city is found guilty."

Justice William Grant of the New Brunswick Court of Queen's Bench has
reserved decision on whether to award costs to the city. No return
date has been set.
Moved from police to works department

The lawsuit alleges the city is responsible for the actions of one of
its employees who is alleged to have sexually assaulted dozens of
children during his time as a police officer.

Kenneth Estabrooks was a police officer from 1953 to 1975, when he was
transferred to the city's works department after admitting to sexual
relationships with two teenage boys.

He continued to be employed by the city until his retirement in 1983.
Elderly man in a burgundy suit jacket.
Kenneth Estabrooks was found guilty in 1999 of indecent assault of
children while he was a Saint John police officer. He was sentenced to
six years. (CBC)

In 1999, the former sergeant was found guilty of indecent assault
against four children, in cases dating back to the 1950s. He was
sentenced to six years in prison.

The class-action began in 2013 and finally got to trial in June 2022.
The six-day trial heard testimony from five men ranging in age from 58
to 66. They said Estabrooks preyed upon them when they were boys in
Saint John.

The only one that can be named is Hayes, the representative plaintiff.

Hayes said he was first sexually assaulted by Estabrooks in 1970 as a
10-year-old and many other times over the next three or four years.

Hayes also alleged that he was sexually assaulted again by Estabrooks
as a young man, when they were both employed by the city works
department, and that supervisors simply advised him to "move faster"
to avoid being assaulted.
City only partially liable

Grant eventually ruled that the city was not vicariously liable for
Estabrooks's actions while he was a police officer. It was only
vicariously liable for the period of time while Estabrooks was
employed in the works department.

As the city's lawyer, Michael Brenton, pointed out during arguments on
Friday morning, the only allegations of sexual assault during that
period of time were made by Hayes, who said he was aware of three
other adult employees of the works department.

Following last year's trial, the city asked for costs to be awarded.
It was that issue that took the case back to court on Friday.

Lawyers for the plaintiff argued that the law allows for no costs to
be ordered in certain circumstances, said lawyer Celeste Poltak.

Foremost among them, she said, is to protect access to justice for
everyone. She said many of the class members are "extremely vulnerable
and marginalized individuals."

Not making plaintiffs pay costs, said Poltak, will "ensure no chilling
effect on future cases."

Otherwise, she said, people who aren't able to pay will not attempt to
seek justice through the courts.
Judge's decision appealed

Hayes is confident that he won't have to pay. In fact, he's optimistic
that the Court of Appeal will rule in the plaintiffs'  favour

Another lawyer for the plaintiffs, Adam Tanel, said they believe the
judge erred by not making the city liable for the actions of one of
its police officers.

"We think the decision was wrong. We think that municipalities are
responsible for their police forces — that the City of Saint John had
authority over the Saint John Police Force, had extensive control over
operations.
Head and shoulders picture of a man in dark suit.
Adam Tanel is part of the legal team for the plaintiffs in the class
action against the City of Saint John. (Submitted by Adam Tanel)

"The City of Saint John provided the guns, the handcuffs and the car
that this abuser used to perpetrate these assaults. The city ought to
be held liable."

So far, no date has been set for the Court of Appeal to hear the case.

If Grant's decision stands, only those who were abused between 1975
and 1983 will be eligible for compensation.

This is torture, living with what he's done. ​​

    - Bobby Hayes

Based on evidence heard at last year's trial, that would include Hayes
and three other men he said he was aware of.

It would not include dozens of plaintiffs who said they were sexually
abused by Estabrooks when they were children.

Hayes said the class includes roughly 140 individuals. He said he's
aware of many more who are no longer alive, and others who have
stories to tell but aren't strong enough to go through the legal
fight.

"This is torture, living with what he's done," said Hayes.

Tanel said, "I think we can't can't overstate the extent of the damage
that this monster caused … But it's also a story of human bravery.

"It's remarkable that Bobby Hayes was able to come forward and be such
a strong advocate on behalf of the countless children that this
monster abused."
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Mia Urquhart

Mia Urquhart is a journalist with CBC New Brunswick, based in Saint
John. She can be reached at mia.urquhart@cbc.ca.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 14:34:00 -0400
Subject: RE Ottawa sets aside $900M to settle sexual misconduct
lawsuits I did call all of your law firms and tried to remind your
people of my prior contacts CORRECT?
To: raywagner@wagners.co, jharnum@kmlaw.ca, qhs_gmh@globetrotter.net,
cflood@kmlaw.ca
Cc: motomaniac333 <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, "harjit.sajjan"
<harjit.sajjan@parl.gc.ca>, "Jonathan.Vance"
<Jonathan.Vance@forces.gc.ca>

Raymond F. Wagner, Q.C.
Phone: 902-425-7330
Email: raywagner@wagners.co


James Harnum
Phone: 416-542-6285.
Email: jharnum@kmlaw.ca


G. Marc Henry
Phone: 418-682-8924 Ext: 225
Email: qhs_gmh@globetrotter.net

Craig Flood
Phone: 416-595-2105
Email: cflood@kmlaw.ca


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "MEDIA-MÉDIAS (VAC/ACC)" <vac.media-medias.acc@canada.ca>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 16:28:32 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: How Ottawa gave up its entitlements to
embrace ethics SWAT teams Yea Right I agree now tell me another one Mr
Egan while allt unethical journalists
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

Hello,

We have received your request and are working on a response. We will
send you an answer to your query as soon as possible.

Thank you for your interest in Veterans Affairs Canada.

***

Bonjour,

Nous avons bien reçu votre demande. Nous allons préparer une réponse à
vos questions et vous l’envoyer aussitôt que possible.

Nous vous remercions de l’intérêt pour Anciens Combattants Canada.

***

Media Relations | Relations avec les médias
Veterans Affairs Canada | Anciens Combattants Canada
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada
613-992-7468
vac.media-medias.acc@canada.ca<mailto:vac.media-medias.acc@canada.ca>
Check out our Media
Kits<http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/news/media-kits>! / Consultez notre
Trousse d’information<http://www.veterans.gc.ca/fra/news/media-kits>!



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dale Morgan <dale.morgan@rcmp-grc.gc.ca>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 12:28:33 -0400
Subject: Re: How Ottawa gave up its entitlements to embrace ethics
SWAT teams Yea Right I agree now tell me another one Mr Egan while
allt unethical journalists
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

I am currently AOL returning August 6th.  Please contact Sgt. James
MACPHERSON (Sussex) or Staff Ben JOLETTE (Southeast District)
in my absence.  I am also on my  cell.




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dwayne Woodman <dwayne.woodman@rcmp-grc.gc.ca>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 12:28:33 -0400
Subject: Re: How Ottawa gave up its entitlements to embrace ethics
SWAT teams Yea Right I agree now tell me another one Mr Egan while
allt unethical journalists (Vacation)
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

Je serai hors du bureau jusque le 24 juillet 2019.

I will be out of the office until July 24 th, 2019.

>>> David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com> 07/19/19 13:28 >>>

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/egan-how-ottawa-gave-up-its-entitlements-to-embrace-ethics-swat-teams
How Ottawa gave up its entitlements to embrace ethics SWAT teams
Kelly Egan
Updated: January 2, 2019

"$100 is not a penalty for a serious ethical breach; it’s a parking
ticket. The pendulum, people, has swung too far the other way. We are
sending out highly paid storm troopers for people possibly guilty of
jaywalking.

We are so, so out to lunch on this one."

To contact Kelly Egan, please call 613-726-5896 or email
kegan@postmedia.com.



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:22:38 -0400
Subject: Methinks the Clerk of the Privy Council Ian Shugart and many
others can't play dumb N'esy Pas Catherine Blewett?
To: Catherine.Blewett@pco-bcp.gc.ca, Newsroom@globeandmail.com,
Jonathan.Vance@forces.gc.ca, Gilles.Moreau@forces.gc.ca,
harjit.sajjan@parl.gc.ca, hon.ralph.goodale@canada.ca,
Jody.Wilson-Raybould@parl.gc.ca, Jane.Philpott@parl.gc.ca,
jagmeet.singh@parl.gc.ca, maxime.bernier@parl.gc.ca,
andrew.scheer@parl.gc.ca, blaine.higgs@gnb.ca,
barbara.massey@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, Nathalie.Drouin@justice.gc.ca,
David.Lametti@parl.gc.ca, mcu@justice.gc.ca, jan.jensen@justice.gc.ca,
leader@greenparty.ca, elizabeth.may@parl.gc.ca, lisa.raitt@parl.gc.ca,
Bill.Casey@parl.gc.ca, tony.clement@parl.gc.ca,
Brenda.Lucki@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, Larry.Tremblay@rcmp-grc.gc.ca,
Paul.Shuttle@pco-bcp.gc.ca, Ian.Shugart@pco-bcp.gc.ca,
Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca, Kevin.leahy@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, pm@pm.gc.ca,
Katie.Telford@pmo-cpm.gc.ca, Karen.Ludwig@parl.gc.ca,
Alaina.Lockhart@parl.gc.ca, premier@gnb.ca, premier@ontario.ca,
news@kingscorecord.com, news@dailygleaner.com, news@hilltimes.com,
david.eidt@gnb.ca, David.Akin@globalnews.ca, steve.murphy@ctv.ca,
mlo-blm@forces.gc.ca
Cc: motomaniac333 <motomaniac333@gmail.com>

---------- Original message ----------
From: "Shugart, Ian" <Ian.Shugart@pco-bcp.gc.ca>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:06:06 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Methinks everybody knows why I called the
Media Relations Department of National Defence (613-996-2353)
immediately after I read this news statement # 83 of my lawsuit said
enough N'esy Pas?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

Please note that Ian Shugart, Clerk of the Privy Council, will be out
of the office from July 8 to July 19 inclusively. During his absence,
you can contact Catherine Blewett at 613-957-5466.

All correspondence and various requests should be routed in the usual
manner.

Thank you

**************************************************************

Veuillez prendre note qu’Ian Shugart, Greffier du Conseil privé, sera
absent du bureau le 8 au 19 juillet, 2019.  Pendant son absence, vous
pouvez communiquer avec Catherine Blewett au 613-957-5466.

Toute correspondance et autres demandes doivent être acheminées de
façon habituelle.

Merci



---------- Original message ----------
From: "Hon.Ralph.Goodale  (PS/SP)" <Hon.ralph.goodale@canada.ca>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:05:58 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Methinks everybody knows why I called the
Media Relations Department of National Defence (613-996-2353)
immediately after I read this news statement # 83 of my lawsuit said
enough N'esy Pas?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

Merci d'avoir ?crit ? l'honorable Ralph Goodale, ministre de la
S?curit? publique et de la Protection civile.
En raison d'une augmentation importante du volume de la correspondance
adress?e au ministre, veuillez prendre note qu'il pourrait y avoir un
retard dans le traitement de votre courriel. Soyez assur? que votre
message sera examin? avec attention.
Merci!
L'Unit? de la correspondance minist?rielle
S?curit? publique Canada
*********

Thank you for writing to the HonourDue to the significant increase in
the volume of correspondence
addressed to the Minister, please note there could be a delay in
processing your email. Rest assured that your message will be
carefully reviewed.
Thank you!
Ministerial Correspondence Unit
Public Safety Canada



---------- Original message ----------
From: "Eidt, David (JAG/JPG)" <David.Eidt@gnb.ca>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:05:54 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Methinks everybody knows why I called the
Media Relations Department of National Defence (613-996-2353)
immediately after I read this news statement # 83 of my lawsuit said
enough N'esy Pas?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

I am out of the office until Tuesday afternoon, July 23.  For
immediate assistance, please dial (506) 453-2222.

Je suis absent du bureau jusqu'au 23 Juillet.  Si vous avez besoin de
l'assistance immediate svp appeler 453-2222.



---------- Original message ----------
From: Premier of Ontario | Premier ministre de l’Ontario
<Premier@ontario.ca>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:05:59 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Methinks everybody knows why I called the
Media Relations Department of National Defence (613-996-2353)
immediately after I read this news statement # 83 of my lawsuit said
enough N'esy Pas?
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

Thank you for your email. Your thoughts, comments and input are greatly
valued.

You can be assured that all emails and letters are carefully read,
reviewed and taken into consideration.

There may be occasions when, given the issues you have raised and the
need to address them effectively, we will forward a copy of your
correspondence to the appropriate government official. Accordingly, a
response may take several business days.

Thanks again for your email.
______­­

Merci pour votre courriel. Nous vous sommes très reconnaissants de
nous avoir fait part de vos idées, commentaires et observations.

Nous tenons à vous assurer que nous lisons attentivement et prenons en
considération tous les courriels et lettres que nous recevons.

Dans certains cas, nous transmettrons votre message au ministère
responsable afin que les questions soulevées puissent être traitées de
la manière la plus efficace possible. En conséquence, plusieurs jours
ouvrables pourraient s’écouler avant que nous puissions vous répondre.

Merci encore pour votre courriel.




---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 09:05:51 -0400
Subject: Methinks everybody knows why I called the Media Relations
Department of National Defence (613-996-2353) immediately after I read
this news statement # 83 of my lawsuit said enough N'esy Pas?
To: Newsroom@globeandmail.com, Jonathan.Vance@forces.gc.ca,
Gilles.Moreau@forces.gc.ca, harjit.sajjan@parl.gc.ca,
hon.ralph.goodale@canada.ca, Jody.Wilson-Raybould@parl.gc.ca,
Jane.Philpott@parl.gc.cajagmeet.singh@parl.gc.ca,
maxime.bernier@parl.gc.ca, andrew.scheer@parl.gc.ca,
blaine.higgs@gnb.ca, barbara.massey@rcmp-grc.gc.ca,
Nathalie.Drouin@justice.gc.ca, David.Lametti@parl.gc.ca,
mcu@justice.gc.ca, jan.jensen@justice.gc.ca, leader@greenparty.ca,
elizabeth.may@parl.gc.ca, lisa.raitt@parl.gc.ca,
Bill.Casey@parl.gc.ca, tony.clement@parl.gc.ca,
Brenda.Lucki@rcmp-grc.gc.ca, Larry.Tremblay@rcmp-grc.gc.ca,
Paul.Shuttle@pco-bcp.gc.ca, Ian.Shugart@pco-bcp.gc.ca,
Kevin.Vickers@gnb.ca, Kevin.leahy@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
Cc: motomaniac333@gmail.com, pm@pm.gc.ca, Katie.Telford@pmo-cpm.gc.ca,
Karen.Ludwig@parl.gc.ca, Alaina.Lockhart@parl.gc.ca, premier@gnb.ca,
premier@ontario.ca, news@kingscorecord.com, news@dailygleaner.com,
news@hilltimes.com, david.eidt@gnb.ca, David.Akin@globalnews.ca,
steve.murphy@ctv.ca, mlo-blm@forces.gc.ca

https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/07/ottawa-sets-aside-900m-to-settle-sexual.html


Friday, 19 July 2019

Ottawa sets aside $900M to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against
Canadian Armed Forces

https://twitter.com/DaReplying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks everybody knows why I called the Media Relations Department
of National Defence (613-996-2353) immediately after I read this news
statement # 83 of my lawsuit said enough N'esy Pas?


https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2015/09/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo.html


#cdnpoli #nbpoli


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-sexual-misconduct-settlement-1.5216307


Ottawa sets aside $900M to settle sexual misconduct lawsuits against
Canadian Armed Forces
Class members will be eligible for compensation between $5,000 and
$55,000

Catharine Tunney · CBC News · Posted: Jul 18, 2019 5:05 PM ET
 
 

Liberal leader rejects Green MLA's fraud allegation in 2022 leadership race

 

Liberal leader rejects Green MLA's fraud allegation in 2022 leadership race

Susan Holt says she has seen no evidence that nursing home residents became party members against their will

The leader of New Brunswick's Liberal Party says she's seen no evidence to support a claim that residents of two nursing homes were signed up to vote in the 2022 party leadership race without their knowledge or against their will.

That's the allegation made by Green MLA Kevin Arseneau, who says he has evidence that he filed last week as part of a complaint with the province's seniors' advocate.

But Susan Holt told reporters that supporters of one of her leadership rivals did sign up residents of the two Bathurst-area homes, she is not aware that any were registered unknowingly.

"No, I don't know of any," she said. 

WATCH | 'It's really serious': Liberal leader on voter sign-up claims:
 

Liberal leader says no evidence seniors were signed up unknowingly

Duration 1:26
Susan Holt responds to claim that nursing home residents were added to Liberal leadership voting list without their consent.

Minutes after her comments, Holt approached Arseneau in the rotunda of the legislature asking him to supply her with the evidence he says he has.

He refused, saying he got his information from conversations with residents and suggested Holt go speak to them herself.

2 homes owned by same person

Arseneau said last week that his own grandmother, who has dementia, is a resident of one of the two homes.

The Green MLA said in the legislature last week that 28 out of 30 residents of one Bathurst-area nursing home had been signed up as Liberals, as were 25 out of 30 residents of a second home belonging to the same owner. 

A letter on Liberal Party letterhead 

A letter from the Liberal Party to Arseneau demands that membership lists be returned. (Jacques Poitras/CBC News)

He called it "a suspected case of fraud and abuse."

The two homes are both known as Chez Annie. One is in Bathurst and one is in nearby Robertville.

Arseneau said he asked the advocate to investigate what happened and accused the Liberals of having known about the issue since 2022 without acting on it.

The co-owner of the two nursing homes, Steven Sisk, told CBC News that he was approached by a supporter of leadership candidate Donald Arseneault to invite residents to join the party to vote for its new leader.

"I checked if there was any interest in taking part in that on the part of residents, and by popular demand, yes, I guess they were very interested," Sisk said.

"Everyone who was enrolled consented to it."

He also said most of the residents were very interested in politics, made their own decisions on who to vote for and were not pressured to support a particular candidate.

"They knew who they wanted to vote for anyways," he said. "You can't force nobody into nothing."

MLA's grandmother signed up

Sisk said not all of the 53 residents who signed up ended up voting, particularly residents with dementia or Alzheimer's.

"The ones who could not, did not."

He added that he didn't know if Kevin Arseneau's grandmother voted but said she consented to being signed up.

On Wednesday the Liberals sent an official notice to the Green MLA demanding he return "personal and confidential information regarding its members."

Kevin Arseneau speaks in the legislature Arseneau accused the Liberal Party of signing up members from a nursing home, some without their knowledge or consent. (Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick)

Possessing the information was "unauthorized, unethical and lawful," Liberal Party president Carley Parish wrote.

Arseneau confirmed he obtained an 11-page list of all Liberal Party members in the two ridings where the nursing homes are located.

He said the Liberal notice was an attempt to "change the narrative," and he would "absolutely not" return the membership lists because it constitutes evidence supporting his complaint.

Holt said the party became aware from media organizations that Arseneau had the information, though no news organizations had referred to the list or published any of the names, addresses or other information on it at the time she made the assertion.

Arseneau said while he showed the documents to some journalists, he knew they would not publish any of the personal information. 

"I have not released that information publicly. I have used it in a very responsible way, so that we could address a very real and severe and sinister problem." 

Donald Arseneault, who placed fourth in the 2022 leadership race, said by text Wednesday that he rejected the suggestion his volunteers would sign up seniors without their consent.

"I have no reason to doubt that they didn't do anything wrongfully," he said.

"To make these allegations is quite unfortunate. Seniors have the right to vote."

Bathurst West-Beresford MLA Rene Legacy, who supported Arseneault for leader, challenged Kevin Arseneau to present his evidence publicly that some residents were registered without their consent.

"The MLA who brought it up is going to have to bring up the proof. I'm not going to go into a campaign of dirtying the Liberal name until I have the proof."

Holt said Wednesday that she canvassed her caucus and none of her current MLAs, including Arseneault's supporters, signed up residents of the nursing homes.

She also said the party has made it clear that volunteers must ensure "that people in positions of influence aren't unduly influencing people to do something that's not of their free will. It's something we take really seriously."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR


Jacques Poitras

Provincial Affairs reporter

Jacques Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick since 2000. He grew up in Moncton and covered Parliament in Ottawa for the New Brunswick Telegraph-Journal. He has reported on every New Brunswick election since 1995 and won awards from the Radio Television Digital News Association, the National Newspaper Awards and Amnesty International. He is also the author of five non-fiction books about New Brunswick politics and history.

 
 
 
155 Comments
 
 
David Amos 
Methinks Trudeau had an interesting visit to Caraquet today N'esy Pas? 
 
 
David Amos  
Its not what he said Its what he did not say eh?

"Trudeau did not say if he would campaign with Liberal Leader Susan Holt in the run-up to the New Brunswick election."

David Amos  
Reply to David Amos 
"In March, Holt called for putting off the carbon tax for one year because New Brunswickers were struggling enough with rising costs.

Trudeau rejected this, saying Thursday that the price on pollution helps Canadians."

 
David Amos 
What a difference a day makes eh?
 
 
David Amos
Methinks Mr Finnigan will be stepping up to the plate in short order N'esy Pas?

 
David Amos

Methinks Mr Outhouse is enjoying reading the news and the comments today N'esy Pas? 
 
 
David Amos

Does anyone recall the fun Rebel News had with the Liberal Party president Carley Parish when she sent them a nasty letter on behalf of the RCMP?
 
 
 
Dave Gordon
Team red has trouble with the rules? Weird 
 
David Amos  
Reply to Dave Gordon 
Ask Justice Gomery why that is   
 
 
 
Le Wier   
Higgs has the Honda goldwing all gassed up and ready to go. The campaign must be in countdown mode.
 
David Amos
Reply to Le Wier   
I bet he is giggling about my Harley 
 
Le Wier
Reply to David Amos
Just wait until you see Outhouse’s new campaign ad with Higgs touring the province on his Honda Goldwing  
 
David Amos
Reply to Le Wier 
You do know who I am correct?    
 
David Amos 
Reply to David Amos 
Le Wier

Higgs must be ready to announce the election. The emails are out to request lawn signs and the promo ad for vote Blaine Higgs is done, and the baby blue bus must be getting the final touches. In the new ad Higgs is touring the province on his Honda gold wing motorcycle. Don’t blink you may miss him!

Don Corey

I passed on the lawn signs request; never did go for that one, and it would be a wasted effort anyway in my neck of the woods.

Le Wier

I find the lawn signs to be outdated, and I don’t provide free advertising for anybody. I don’t even like to wear clothing with logos.

Samual Johnston

Well after this huge endorsement from Justin he would be wise to call it. Even Holt is wishing JT would just mind his own business she wants nothing to do with him.

Don Corey

I agree.

David Amos  
Reply to David Amos  
I concur
 
 
 
Jake Newman 
the green will never be anything more than a fringe party, and who knows what Holt and her liberal party stand for (well other than more taxes).
 
David Amos  
Reply to Jake Newman 
True
 
 
 
Danny Sterns 
I lost, so therefore someone must have cheated.
 
David Amos  
Reply to Danny Sterns  
How so? 
 
 
 
Alison Jackson  
I'm confused, didn't Higgs gerrymander districts in his favor? Interesting why the Green candidate didn't go after him.
 
Mr Cain
Reply to Alison Jackson  
Not over 'til it's over. 
 
Le Wier
Reply to Alison Jackson  
Yes the commission has submitted their final amended report of the new ridings for the next provincial election.
 
David Amos  
Reply to Alison Jackson  
The same gerrymandering tricks were applied to the federal ridings and nobody was permitted to protest publicly in Fundy Royal 
  
 
 
ralph jacobs  
He's just mad seniors are to smart to vote Green.
 
David Amos  
Reply to ralph jacobs  
Of that I have no doubt  
 
 
 
Marge Timmons 
There was a time when politicians put the country ahead of their party or their egos. Sadly, those days are long gone.
 
Mr Cain 
Reply to Marge Timmons  
When was that?
 
Eddy Geek 
Reply to Mr Cain
I'm going to have to suggest, never

sigh

David Amos  
Reply to Eddy Geek  
I agree 
  
 
 
Rolando Friedman 
Since time immemorial . . . Grit times are graft times.
 
Kyle Woodman
Reply to Rolando Friedman 
We are currently paying 20k/ month for an Outhouse.
 
Eddy Geek 
Reply to Rolando Friedman
Looking at our history over the last few decades: Grit, Tory .... both are graft times
 
David Amos  
Reply to Eddy Geek  
Go back to day one over 15 decades ago and look at the Feds dealing with CPR and the Hudson Bay Company etc
 
 
 
Les Cooper 
Stop wasting time and money on this petty stuff. Try working for province instead of fighting with each other.
 
Mr Cain 
Reply to Les Cooper
Nobody can work with this autocratic PC government.
 
Eddy Geek 
Reply to Mr Cain
Ah yes Homer Ford

Like most people in Ontario, I was overjoyed to be rid of McGuinty/Wynne

But then came Ford who has managed to out do everything those previous two did, in a shorter space of time - even after counting for inflation

David Amos  
Reply to Eddy Geek  
Welcome to the Maritimes
 
 
Lou Bell
 
 
Lou Bell
Reply to Lou Bell
Or maybe they did . 
 
David Amos
 
Reply to Lou Bell 
Methinks that maybe the Powers That Be agree that its time for you to have another butter tart and a nap N'esy Pas?
 
 
 
Lou Bell 
Can't even trust one another in their own party . Not surprised at all .
 
Eddy Geek
Reply to Lou Bell
You think it's different in the red, blue or orange parties??
 
David Amos  
 
Reply to Eddy Geek  
Trust that everyone and his dog can predict Little Lou's answers
 
 
Lou Bell 
Anyone really surprised ?
 
 
Lou Bell 
Following the Liberal mantra , deny , deny , deny .
 
Lou Bell 
Reply to Lou Bell 
Until caught . Then deny , deny , deny .
 
Eddy Geek
Reply to Lou Bell
um ya, the PC's are in office and most certainly follow the mantra "deny, deny, deny, ooops, was that me??, then deny, deny, deny"



Marge Timmons
Regardless of party, the basic fact remains....most politicians are not ethical people and are led by their massive egos.  
 
David Amos
Reply to Marge Timmons 
Amen
 
Ron Hermann 
Reply to Marge Timmons  
So true. 
 
 
 
G. Timothy Walton  
So a high percentage of people in the old Liberal dog-riding region signed up, including many people with dementia who probably think it's decades ago, when voting Liberal there was as much tribal as voting PC in Kings or Carleton Counties.

I'd be shocked if they got any other result.

David Amos
Reply to G. Timothy Walton 
Everybody knows where I live if you put a blue coat on a dog it will win and common sense has nothing to do with it Its tribal all the was down the line before Confederation 
 
David Amos
Reply to David Amos 
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.

Albert Einstein

Kyle Woodman
Reply to G. Timothy Walton 
Yeah, I wonder what the result would be if the PC's showed at a Bathurst Nursing Home, looking for support for Blaine Higgs' leadership contest
 
David Amos
Reply to David Amos
Fundy Royal voters have elected Conservatives all but 1 time in 28 elections over 101 years

CBC News · Posted: Oct 17, 2015 6:00 AM ADT

 
 
Kyle Woodman
  
 
David Amos
Reply to Kyle Woodman
No doubt she happy to have your support   
 
Kyle Woodman 
Reply to Kyle Woodman 
Haha. Ronald, how did Yennah Hurley get her job? 
 
 
 
JOhn D Bond   
Why is this being brought to like two years later? 
 
Max Ruby
Reply to JOhn D Bond
Arseneau said he asked the advocate to investigate what happened and accused the Liberals of having known about the issue since 2022 without acting on it. 
 
Kyle Woodman
Reply to JOhn D Bond 
Good question.  
 
William Peters 
Reply to JOhn D Bond  
To inform us that politics is a very crooked game as the low levels where the ends justify the means? I'm pretty sure we are all aware of that.
 
David Amos
Reply to Kyle Woodman
Ditto 
 
 
 
Max Ruby
Green MLA Kevin Arseneau own grandmother with dementia was signed up for the Liberals. In reality she would support her own grandson.
 
Kyle Woodman
Reply to Max Ruby  
How do you know that? 
 
Max Ruby
Reply to Kyle Woodman 
7th paragraph in the article then in bold middle of the article: " MLA's grandmother signed up. " Sisk, nursing home owner said she consented to being signed up.
 
Kyle Woodman
Reply to Max Ruby 
I mean how do you know that Kevin Arseneau's grandmother isn't a long time Liberal supporter? I don't always vote the same way my grandparents do. Lots of older folks always vote the same way. 
 
Max Ruby
Reply to Kyle Woodman 
The bigger question: Is the nursing home owner Sisk a long time Liberal supporter?
 
Kyle Woodman
Reply to Max Ruby  
What result would you expect from a Nursing Home in Bathurst. The real question is how many of these folks were already members of the Liberal Party or had been members in the past. Look at the voting patterns in Bathurst.
 
David Amos  
Reply to Max Ruby 
How do you know if Kevin Arseneau's grandmother likes his style of politicking?
 
David Amos  
Reply to Max Ruby 
My Mother hated mine and voted against me
 
 
 
B Johnny Kalibanos  
Where there is smoke, there is fire. 
 
David Amos  
Reply to B Johnny Kalibanos 
Yup 



Zoe Richmond  
I'll bet Premier Higgs will see another term. Good Day!
 
Jos Allaire
Reply to Zoe Richmond   
And his rich friends will get richer and the rest will get poorer.
 
Jos Allaire
Reply to Zoe Richmond  
 It's a big club and you ain't in it.
 
David Amos  
Reply to Jos Allaire
Old George would be proud of you
 
David Amos  
Reply to Jos Allaire 
As for me like old Groucho I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.
 
Marc Bourque 
Reply to Zoe Richmond  
Rather have him,although I dont really care for him,than a liberal any-day
 
Lou Bell
Reply to Jos Allaire 
Ah , the Liberal response . Look ! A unicorn !
 
Jack Bell
Reply to Lou Bell
That unicorn identifies as a leprechaun.
 
David Amos  
Reply to Jack Bell  
Are you two related? 
 
 
 
Le Wier 
This isn’t the first time the NB Liberals have been questioned on nominations and party voting. In 2014 the Liberals were questioned about the then Rothesay candidate Stephanie Hayes Underhill Tomlinson was questioned about recruiting her high school students to nominate her.   
 
Robert Brannen
Reply to Le Wier
At the time, and maybe still, party rules allowed persons as young as 14 to vote in candidate nomination meetings. I believe that is similar to the rules used by the other parties as well.
 
Le Wier
Reply to Robert Brannen
Yes the PCs have a rule as well that the age to vote is age 14. I was just pointing out this wasn’t the first time the Liberals were accused of this 
 
Robert Brannen
Reply to Le Wier
I think the point of this story is more about what has been revealed by these two paragraphs in the story:

"On Wednesday the Liberals sent an official notice to the Green MLA demanding he return'personal and confidential information regarding its members'.

Possessing the information was 'unauthorized, unethical and lawful,' Liberal Party president Carley Parish wrote."

Le Wier
Reply to Robert Brannen 
Agreed. I think this is going to be a complex election campaign with a lot of issues when the election is called, and a lot of stuff has been hidden by all parties that seems to be coming to light.

David Amos
Reply to Le Wier   
Perhaps you should ask Gerald Bourque why he created the KISS Party
 
David Amos
Reply to Robert Brannen 
Trust that I treasure every word that lawyer writes 
 
Le Wier
Reply to David Amos
I thought it was to bring common sense to politics and NB. Sounds like Outhouse stole Bourque’s party slogan and gave it to Pollivere and Higgs. Bourque should sue.  
 
David Amos  
Reply to Le Wier 
Bourque used me to deal with lawyers


 
Max Ruby
 
Max Ruby 
Reply to Max Ruby  
Kevin Arseneau, Green party.
 
David Amos  
Reply to Max Ruby 
I guess we will never know how you upset the powers that be   
 
 
 
Marc LeBlanc 
Who became leader by having a free party at the Cool Camel with a $10 ticket and a bus ride? Who won a federal nomination with bus loads of Social Services stakeholders?

I give this revelation three and a half Meh's

David Amos 
Reply to Marc LeBlanc   
Please do tell us all
 
 
 
valmond landry
their you go, the kids are having a great time fighting with each other , is that the kind of politic that NEWBRUNSWICKERS really wants.
 
Ron parker
Reply to valmond landry 
It would be nice for them to work together for the best of all of NB.
 
Robert Brannen 
Reply to valmond landry 
That comment now refers to two political parties within New Brunswick.
 
David Amos  
Reply to valmond landry   
I love the circus 
 
 
 
Christopher Logan   
People in Nursing homes and people with dementia have a right to participate in these things too - I applaud them for giving them the opportunity. Shame on Kevin for spinning this as something untoward.
 
Kyle Woodman
Reply to Christopher Logan 
This is kind of how I feel about it too.
 
David Amos  
Reply to Christopher Logan
I concur 
 
 
 
Don Corey 
Does anyone actually believe anything Kevin Arsenault has to say? 
 
Ron parker 
Reply to Don Corey 
Same could be said about all of them.  
 
Bryan Jones
Reply to Don Corey
He's resentful because the Libs didn't want him.
 
David Amos
Reply to Bryan Jones
Bingo 

David Amos
Reply to Ron parker 
Oh So True  
 
David Amos
Reply to Don Corey 
I doubt it 
 
 
 
Bill Smith 
For years this party has cheated. Years ago, liberal members could transfer their votes to an other area in local nomination races. Look it up. Hello for cheating!! This led to public outcry, but the damage was done. Ms. Holt seems awful wiggly on the radio about it. Who else did the same in her leadership race? So will the person who used vulnerable seniors, get a plum job in her govt? Time will tell.
 
David Amos
Reply to Bill Smith   
Thats the reason the KISS Party was created
 
 
 
Kyle Woodman  
Donald Arsenault is as greasy as they come in NB politics, but Kevin Arseneau also has an axe to grind, so there's that.
 
Kyle Woodman 
 
Jim Lake
Reply to Kyle Woodman
Yes Ronald, you barely, if ever, read the story.

Stop impersonating, and completely misrepresenting, Kyle.

Jim Lake
Reply to Kyle Woodman
I think most would call your impersonation behaviour a type of bullying Ronnie.

Not cool at all.

Kyle Woodman 
Reply to Kyle Woodman
Wrong again Ronald. 
 
Kyle Woodman 
Reply to Kyle Woodman 
It's funny because I'm actually criticizing the Liberals here, and you can't even recognize that.
 
David Amos
Reply to Kyle Woodman
Donald Arsenault and Kevin Arseneau are two peas in a pod  



Kyle Woodman 
 
Kyle Woodman 
Reply to Kyle Woodman 
Oh please Ron. This is nothing compared to the failures of the Higgs government.
 
David Amos
Reply to Kyle Woodman
Welcome back to the circus 
 
 
 
Eugene Peabody  
It sure seems like the Green MLA is worried about the momentum Ms. Holt has and is worried about his seat. It is worth noting that he made his statement in the house were he could not be sued for false accusations.
 
David Amos
Reply to Eugene Peabody   
I noticed that too
 
 
 
Rusty Shackleford 
Somehow JP will blame hoiggs  
 
Jim Lake
Reply to Rusty Shackleford  
Only when it’s justified.
 
Don Corey
Reply to Jim Lake
No, not justified, but ok as long as it somehow fits his agenda.
 
David Amos
Reply to Don Corey 
Nope and Yup 
 
 
 
Marcel Marcotte 
Provincial Politics in New Brunswick is getting nasty and we still have 5 months before the Provincial Election. Hopefully this does not profit Mr. Higgs and his party.
 
David Amos
Reply to Marcel Marcotte 
It already has 
 
 
 
Inger Nielsen  
Stirring the pot! my guess is someone does not want a green lib coalition.
 
David Amos
Reply to Inger Nielsen  
Who would that be?
 
 
 
Shawn Tabor  
Well, well, lets see what will come of this. LOL
 
David Amos
Reply to Shawn Tabor   
You know as well as I that nothing will come of this
 
 
 
Daniel Henwell  
if true, this is a pretty dirty trick.
 
David Amos
Reply to Daniel Henwell
All is fair in love, war, litgation and politicking 
 
 
 
pete prosser  
Who voted for Green MLA Kevin Arseneau? Really?  
 
Ron parker
Reply to pete prosser 
enough to put him in there. 
 
pete prosser  
Reply to Ron parker  
and what bribin' did he do to get those votes.....
 
Ron parker
Reply to pete prosser  
My experience is they all do, no matter the team. 
 
Clive Gibbons
Reply to Ron parker 
Twice.
 
Jack Bell 
Reply to pete prosser 
"Who voted for Green MLA Kevin Arseneau?"

His SANB buddies.

https://onfr.tfo.org/kevin-arseneau-de-la-sanb-a-lassemblee/
 
David Amos
Reply to pete prosser 
Yup
 
David Amos
Reply to Jack Bell
Hmmm
 
 
 

Trudeau blasts N.B. premier over gender-identity policy, abortion access

Prime minister says Premier Blaine Higgs risks making vulnerable kids even more vulnerable

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau took aim at New Brunswick's controversial gender-identity policy on Thursday, accusing Premier Blame Higgs of putting politics before the interests of vulnerable schoolchildren.

During a visit to Caraquet, Trudeau was asked about a provincial policy that now requires parental consent before school staff can use certain students' chosen names and pronouns.

"I trust parents, I trust schools," Trudeau said. "And I don't think we should be trying to score political points off of kids who are incredibly vulnerable, who shouldn't be targeted by political parties wanting to get elected or to get re-elected."

The revised Policy 713 has stirred up anger among students, teachers and parents on all sides of the issue and pitted some school districts against the government. It's currently being challenged in court.

Trudeau said his concern is that "we're not further vulnerablizing our most vulnerable kids."

 People holding up pride flag in foreground, legistlative assembly in background.Policy 713 requires school staff to get the consent of parents if a student under 16 wants to adopt a new name or pronoun. (Radio-Canada)

He also said he stands against the Higgs government "for not respecting women's rights to choose."

In January, a medical clinic in Fredericton called Clinic 554 closed because the province wouldn't allow abortion services to be covered by Medicare.

Adrian Edgar address people outside the New Brunswick Legislature. Medical director Dr. Adrian Edgar announced in January that Clinic 554 was closing because the province would not cover abortions under Medicare. (Aidan Cox/CBC)

Surgical abortions are now only paid for by Medicare at the two hospitals in Moncton and at Chaleur Hospital in Bathurst. No other hospital in New Brunswick offers the service.

WATCH | 'We're seeing what happened in the United States' :
 

Justin Trudeau had strong words for Higgs government during Caraquet stop

Duration 1:54
The prime minister made comments about Policy 713, women’s right to choose, while in the province to announce the national school food program.

"The shutting down of health and reproductive services offered by Clinic 554, the unwillingness to engage in allowing women to actually choose what happens to their future and their bodies is a disgrace," Trudeau said.

He went on to compare the fight for abortion access with what's happening in the United States, which saw Roe vs. Wade, a Supreme Court opinion that protected abortion access, overturned in January.

"So we know it's not that Roe vs. Wade couldn't happen in Canada, it's that it's more likely to happen in Canada, particularly with Conservative leaders who continue to not stand up for women's rights."

Ottawa's new national pharmacare plan will cover prescription contraceptives, which Trudeau touted in his remarks about abortion access in New Brunswick.

"Because it's not right that women have to pay upfront to be able to have the choice to start a family or not, that's why IUDs, the pill, all those things will be available for free to women as we move forward on pharmacare for prescription contraceptives."

CBC is asking the Premier's Office for comment.

But Higgs has previously defended his revision of Policy 713 as a way to protect parental rights to know what is going on with their children at school.

As for abortion access outside a hospital "a slippy slope" toward allowing more services in private clinics, and having just three hospitals offering the procedure is "certainly providing the access that's required."

PM disagrees with N.B. Liberal leader on carbon tax

Trudeau did not answer when asked if he would join Liberal Leader Susan Holt during the campaign leading up to the provincial election, scheduled for October.

A woman waves in front of a Liberal sign. Trudeau did not say if he would campaign with Liberal Leader Susan Holt in the run-up to the New Brunswick election. (Sam Farley/CBC News)

In March, Holt called for putting off the carbon tax for one year because New Brunswickers were struggling enough with rising costs.

Trudeau rejected this, saying Thursday that the price on pollution helps Canadians. 

"At a time when Canadians right across the country, including here in New Brunswick, are challenged with a high cost of living, is not the time to take money out of their pockets," Trudeau said, adding that eight out of 10 families in Canada actually make money under the plan.

"The reality is, more money in families' pockets while we fight climate change is something that everyone needs to be getting behind, and indeed fighting for, and that's what I'm going to continue to do." 

Trudeau's comments on Higgs and Holt were made during a stop in northeast New Brunswick to discuss the National School Food Program, which was announced in early April. 

The goal of the $1 billion program is to deliver meals to 400,000 students annually by the 2024-2025 school year.

"I know that making sure kids are well-fed is a priority across the country and right here in New Brunswick," Trudeau said.

"Because we know that when kids eat well, they do better in school. When they do better in school, they do better in life, and that's what we need for everyone in this country."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR


Sam Farley

Journalist

Sam Farley is a Fredericton-based reporter at CBC New Brunswick. Originally from Boston, he is a journalism graduate of the University of King's College in Halifax. He can be reached at sam.farley@cbc.ca

 
 
 113 Comments before being shutdown within 3 hours